Körber-Stiftung (KS): You recently said that the West ‘needs to move beyond its echo chambers’. Is the West doing that?
Emma Louise Powell (ELP): After the Cold War, the developing world received very little attention from the Global North. Because the North thought that the battle for the liberal world order had been won. It was clear from this year’s Munich Security Conference that there is an increasing effort to include voices from the developing world in decision-shaping spaces. And this will safeguard against any attempts to challenge the liberal democratic world order.
KS: Do you mean attempts by Iran and Saudi Arabia, who have just joined BRICS, of which South Africa is a founding member?
ELP: The party that I represent in parliament, the Democratic Alliance has been vocal in opposing the recent decision by the existing BRICS countries to include Iran. Countries such as Iran and Russia are anchor tenants of the axis of malign actors, and together with their proxies, are working to destabilize many regions throughout the world. This is not an alignment that works in South Africa’s favour.
KS: Our survey respondents are much less critical of BRICS. For some, BRICS+ it is not about politics and values, but about trade and investment.
ELP: I don’t subscribe to that school of thought, and I don’t believe that such a separation is possible. Let’s look at the facts. There is no single trade agreement among BRICS partners. It is a myth that there is an economic benefit to be derived from BRICS membership that is not possible as a result of already existing multilateral and bilateral agreements outside of the BRICS grouping. BRICS’s key objective is to challenge the predominance of the G7 from an economic and ideological perspective and that, of course, has political consequences.
KS: South Africa is massively dependent on China, which is also a member of BRICS.
ELP: It is true that China is our largest single country trade partner. And South Africa has a trade deficit with China that is not in our favour. This trade relationship is based on the export of commodities and benefits Chinese manufacturing. But regardless of whether or not South Africa remains a member of BRICS, China is not going to stop importing from South Africa. We can comfortably decouple the two as mutually exclusive relationships.
KS: In our survey, South African respondents consider the African Union (AU) as the most relevant international institution, even more relevant than the United Nations. Does this surprise you?
ELP: It is surprising because the AU is nothing but a talk shop. Look at what’s going on in the Sahel region and what is brewing in the Central African Republic – the AU is doing nothing to stem the tide of violence. The AU’s regional oversight and accountability mechanisms do not work. We simply don’t see African countries utilizing mechanisms from a continental perspective. When was the last time an African state went to the African Court on Human and Peoples’ Rights, and actively used these human rights and justice mechanisms?
KS: The South African government has accused Israel of breaking the UN Genocide Convention in the war against Hamas after the terror attacks of 7 October. Why is South Africa taking the lead here?
ELP: The Democratic Alliance respects the right of any state to approach the International Court of Justice (ICJ). It is however unclear precisely what has motivated the African National Congress (ANC)-led government to approach the court in relation to the Israel-Hamas war, given the bloodbath unfolding in South Africa’s backyard, on the African continent, in countries such as Sudan, and across the Sahel. These regional conflicts have direct consequences for South Africa. We believe the ANC was motivated by political factors, with a genuine desire for justice being an afterthought. We have submitted numerous questions to the minister of international relations to understand whether the government or the ANC received any external funding in relation to lodging and litigating this matter.
KS: Some people say Germany is too powerful for Europe but not powerful enough for the world. Does the same apply to South Africa?
ELP: South Africa is not powerful in either regard at this juncture. Our international stature has been significantly eroded by many years of state capture, and a fairly schizophrenic approach to foreign policy in recent years under the leadership of the ANC.
KS: Chancellor Olaf Scholz travelled to South Africa and asked President Cyril Ramaphosa to sanction Russia. Ramaphosa declined this request. Did Scholz make a mistake?
ELP: No. Any nation whose constitution is founded on the bedrock of liberal values such as freedom and democracy would condemn Russia’s illegal invasion of a sovereign state and would take countermeasures to ensure that there are consequences. South Africa has not even condemned Russia’s illegal invasion, and has positioned itself as a peacemaker of sorts to avoid having to take a position on the war. This is intellectually dishonest, and we see that this position is leading to South Africa’s increasing isolation.
KS: What would you advise Scholz for his next trip to South Africa?
ELP: Our leaders in parliament were recently warned by a visiting delegation of a European nation that such a country’s friendship and generosity is indeed dependent on South Africa’s support for Europe’s regional security interests. More nations need to follow suit in relaying similar messages to the ANC.
KS: What can Germany do to improve relations with South Africa? Our survey shows that technology transfer, access to research and development, and more climate funding might be an option.
ELP: Europe and Germany should be actively investing into civic education and actively promoting democratic ideals on the continent. Any form of investment that would capacitate the private sector and civil society to strengthen oversight mechanisms to ensure that South Africa continues its trajectory as a developing democracy.
Emma Louise Powell is a member of the South African Parliament and shadow minister for international relations and cooperation.
This article earlier appeared in the Listening Beyond the Echo Chamber: Emerging Middle Powers Report.
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